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DR. DREW

Unarmed Black Man Shot simply by Police can be Behavioral Therapist Attempting in order to help a Patient; Revenge Plot Examined; Much More Details upon Baton Rouge Shooter; Pregnant Orange County Woman Brutally Attacked in Her Home

Aired July 21, 2016 - 19:00:00 ET

THIS IS The RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL SHOW HOST: Any black man, hands in the air, he's unarmed, here I am discussing this again, shot through police. This specific guy can end up being a

behavioral therapist who had been simply trying to help one of his patients, who happened to become autistic as well as escaped via a group home.

Police were called when a person reported a person with a gun. Just Take a new take a peek at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: the 911 call ended up being received about a man using a gun threatening for you to commit suicide.

CHARLES KINSEY, BEHAVIORAL THERAPIST: I stick up my hands, as well as I said, no, I just got shot. Along With I`m saying, sir, why did you shoot me? As Well As his words,

to me, he said, I don`t know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: joining me, Evy Poumpouras, unique agent, secret service, Randy Sutton, former lieutenant using the las Vegas Metropolitan Police

Department, along with spokesperson blue lives matter, and also Tariq Nasheed, filmmaker, "Hidden Colors 4," they`re available, that`s accessible now upon

Amazon.

Evy, this guy appeared being doing everything right, along with yet, he still got shot.

EVY POUMPOURAS, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT& SECRET AGENT: Yes, anyone know, and the almost all what we should must notice may end up being the real video where he will find shot. Anyone

know, what we should notice now, his hands up, he`s lying there, he`s trying to communicate using the police. Police are not listening.

And that will happens when you get this tunnel vision. Anyone will hear, you know, there`s a guy having a weapon. An Individual arrive around the scene, and you got in your

mind, this is finished . that I`m going to, a man having a gun about the scene.

And you`re certainly not in a place to absorb what`s really happening. they aren't listening to the man who is lying on the floor. He does possess his hands up.

That`s, anyone know, this isn`t good. but again, getting stated that, I actually want to become able to see the video involving when he will take the actual shot. was the actual affirmative

movement made? What happened that will cause him to consider the particular shot?

If we note that video so we see this man even now laying along with his hands up, then, obviously, that`s a significant issue.

PINSKY: Randy, do you agree?

POUMPOURAS: and charges ought for you to be pressed.

RANDY SUTTON, RETIRED LAS VEGAS METROPOLITAN POLICE: Well, there`s the bunch regarding concerns here using this one. I`m obtaining a amount of information; I`ve lately

received it actually in the last 10 minutes, the officer ended up being actually attempting to shoot the particular autistic man. Simply Because he felt which he`s utilized a...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Yes, Randy, allow me to -- let me interrupt you. Permit me interrupt. I can easily confirm that. I heard the identical thing. It is just in. It`s the

police union chief, not necessarily the authorities chief of that police department, the police union chief says the officer believed the particular autistic man involved

to damage Mr. Kinsey, the man together along with his arms up, consequently he had fired in the autistic man, missed the actual autistic man, but hit Kinsey allegedly through

accident. Randy, is that what you`re hearing?

SUTTON: I`m hearing the same thing.

PINSKY: Nonetheless not good.

SUTTON: So, when once more -- no, no, it`s even now not necessarily good. This particular is not excellent in a large quantity of distinct ways. As Well As there can be certainly carrying out being a few significant -- there`s

going to be some significant coaching issues likely on here. There`s likely to be a quantity of severe taking a glance at this entire situation, as it should be.

This requirements to be examined. It requirements being investigated. And Also it needs to be -- we have to wait until the investigation will be complete...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Tariq, through guess.

SUTTON: ... that`s what we`ve got actually a range of harsh -- I`m sorry? Say that -- state that again?

PINSKY: I`m planning to get Tariq in to this, since I`m wondering if he`s purchasing which explanation. Go ahead.

TARIQ NASHEED, FILMMAKER: No, I`m absolutely not buying it with all. Whatever black individuals who are unarmed, whenever we get shot as well as killed by

race soldiers posing as police officers, there`s usually an excuse. In case we`re not necessarily criminalized, they will always say it`s several kind of accident.

Now, they became available nowadays stating that it had been an accident, he shot Mr. Kinsey. Yet Mr. Kinsey ended up being shot from 3 times, as well as also, right after he ended up being

shot, he had been handcuffed. So, an individual don`t handcuff people a person accidently shoot.

This man has been targeted. and let`s go back. Let`s place this thing within the bigger context, simply because throughout 2006, the FBI place out a document stating that

white supremacist groups get infiltrated law enforcement. So, now, we possess a bunch of suspected race soldiers in the particular role of cops targeting black people.

And absolutely nothing continues to end up being able to be gone with regards to that.

SUTTON: Oh, arrive on.

PINSKY: Randy, go ahead.

NASHEED: Find from here.

SUTTON: come on, get off that. That`s a bunch regarding crap. Race soldiers? Police officers on the particular market providing their lives in the line regarding duty?

(CROSSTALK)

NASHEED: There`s absolutely nothing along with soldiers. There`s nothing wrong police, sir.

SUTTON: are these people race soldiers?

NASHEED: I such as police officers.

SUTTON: Anyone have prejudice and also bias.

NASHEED: Sir, I just like police officers, but shooting unarmed people, that`s not police work. That`s nothing to accomplish with almost all the Constitution and that`s the particular

problem we currently have.

SUTTON: Needless to end up being able to say -- there are concerns here. We are...

(CROSSTALK)

NASHEED: I`m not necessarily stating -- folks are dying.

SUTTON: Generally there is certainly not any issue here.

NASHEED: the issue of men as well as women dying is actually not a minimal issue. Along With a concern that will people are dying along with killing people and executing individuals which includes

nothing to accomplish together with police work. There`s nothing within the policeman that said execute unarmed people.

SUTTON: who got executed? did someone executed here that will I didn`t see?

NASHEED: Merely your most recent weeks alone, Philando Castile, Alton Sterling, some other black people.

SUTTON: And Also how can you understand they were executed?

(CROSSTALK)

NASHEED: Well, I possess eyes...

SUTTON: did you do the particular investigation?

PINSKY: Almost All right, guys.

NASHEED: I possess eyes.

SUTTON: Such As everybody else.

PINSKY: 1 second, gentlemen, a person got to talk one with a time. The Particular delay will be affecting anyone guys. I want to have Evy throughout here. Evy, I am aware you want to always be able to

comment, nevertheless I want additionally you to end up being able to tell me something. This guy shot within the leg, as well as yet, in order to Tariq`s point, the guy laid on the ground pertaining to twenty minutes.

And allow me to tell you, it`s the position, you`re lying around the ground using a bullet inside your leg, an individual can get some thing called compartment syndrome, anyone

can shed the leg, an individual will get kidney failure, you'll end up being in a new position to die via an unintended wound to your limb. That`s a new -- to me, will be a huge part of the particular

story as well.

POUMPOURAS: Yes. That`s your significant issue. Only to jump about what Tariq said. When you do shoot someone, you tend to be in the position to cuff them until a person assess the particular

situation. Nevertheless you have for you to provide all of them with proper health-related remedy inside an significant -- as well as inside immediate time. Sitting there twenty minutes whenever you

didn`t acquire treatment, that`s an issue.

(CROSSTALK)

NASHEED: Yet why are an individual currently cuffing the individual if it`s an accident?

POUMPOURAS: Sir, no, just hold upon tight a moment. Allow me just converse here for a moment.

NASHEED: If it`s an accident, why are you cuffing the individual which he accidentally shot?

POUMPOURAS: Tariq, Tariq, I gave an individual the particular respect associated with speaking, nevertheless you`re certainly not letting me finish.

NASHEED: Go ahead, ma`am.

POUMPOURAS: We`re about national TV.

NASHEED: Go ahead, ma`am.

POUMPOURAS: So, a person know, thus let`s just consider our turns. So, one other thing using the shot with just about all the union member speaking saying that he`s

actually attempting to protect (AUDIO GAP) difficulty simply because which dates back to be able to police training or even the absence of.

If he`s really shooting -- anyone know, he`s really shot a bad person, that`s the problem. Currently we`re heading back to, like, a person don`t know how an individual can use

nor weapon properly, you don`t recognize how anyone can use your discharge. An Individual let loose three rounds and they hit the incorrect person. that furthermore moves back, they may be

going to check back again only in that person shooting records. These People tend to be planning to look at...

(CROSSTALK)

NASHEED: Black. Your incorrect folks always occur being black and also that`s your problem. Law enforcement or possibly the race soldiers posing as cops. They Will realize not

to shoot some other races regarding people.

(CROSSTALK)

POUMPOURAS: An Individual realize what?

NASHEED: the just folks who are getting unarmed -- the sole unarmed individuals getting shot just occur being black. So, both we have a big

coincidence or even we use a system of white supremacy that people have to substitute for the sake regarding justice.

(CROSSTALK)

SUTTON: Really? An Individual didn`t see last week the white guy that got shot?

NASHEED: Just what white guy whom got shot?

(CROSSTALK)

POUMPOURAS: Tariq, you`re utilizing very blanket statements.

SUTTON: Your one inch Fresno that you saw those of course, didn`t make a little bit of distinction to you. the white, oh, no, no, white male has been shot.

NASHEED: Well, they require to negotiate -- they possess to negotiate with that gentleman for any extended time, and the particular man was a white sacrifice, inside the system of

white supremacy you'll usually sacrifice a handful involving white people, nevertheless the vast majority associated with individuals who're being targeted by simply race soldiers

just happened to become black.

TPINSKY: Tariq, have you been suggesting...

(CROSSTALK)

SUTTON: So, is law enforcement officer who shot the man today, has been he white?

NASHEED: Yes, he was, through what I understand. He would always be a white Latino via what I understand.

SUTTON: Well, you`re inquire -- once again, anyone demonstrate ignorance simply because no, he wasn't white. He has been Hispanic, but good try.

NASHEED: Hispanic will be not just a race, sir. He was obviously a white Latino from what I understand. and again, we have a system regarding white supremacy where it really is OK,

and you'll end up being in any position to kill black people with impunity and that`s the important issue that individuals need to address and are available on leading of methods to punish these race solders whom

harmed black individuals every 1 involving the time.

POUMPOURAS: Anyone recognize what, Tariq?? you tend to be calling these officers that wear this uniform and you`re putting everybody under this blanket statement which

they are race soldiers.

(CROSSTALK)

NASHEED: No, I`m not. I`m not. No, I didn't contact law enforcement officers tend to be race soldiers.

POUMPOURAS: The lot of these those who fought very, extremely hard.

NASHEED: Police officers tend to be fine.

POUMPOURAS: So, but that`s what you`re saying with all the situation. Tariq, this will be just not the actual Tariq show, this is actually a Dr. Drew show.

PINSKY: Yes.

POUMPOURAS: Along With we`re supposed to let some other people speak.

PINSKY: I got to prevent everybody today simply because I need in order to go to break.

Next up, the North Miami Police chief is not offering explanation as to how this could possess happened. It took three times to arrive up with an

explanation, Randy just pointed out in order to us. I`m questioning why.

And later, a new revenge plot that will involved a grave fantasy, obtain this, a new jealous ex-girlfriend is actually accused within this bizarre case. We`re again after

this.

ALI NEJAD, THE DAILY SHARE HOST: Ali Nejad inside the studio with the T-Mobile Day-to-day Discuss this hour. Any runaway plane performing donuts has been caught in video

spinning out of control. check it out.

No 1 had been in the cockpit. you may see the pilot chasing it. With times it looked such as the plane ended up being truly chasing him. Your empty plane hit the particular guy

and the actual truck prior to crashing into a hanger.

BUD NECKERBAUER, AIRPORT MANAGER: While he had been chasing the particular aircraft around, the actual tail with the aircraft is actually low, it caught him behind the actual legs as well as flipped

him. And Also he transpired striking his head about the asphalt.

NEJAD: Your planes became popular if the pilot cranked your propeller by simply hand, it apparently had not necessarily been inside the idle position. The Actual 72-year-old was treated in

the hospital in order to injuries for you to his head and his awesome leg. Quite extraordinary video there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This may be Charles Kinsey laying inside the middle regarding the road with his hands within the air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KINSEY: I`m likely to the ground just similar for you to this with my hands up, and also I`m laying down here just just like this, and also I`m telling him again, sir, there`s zero

need pertaining to firearms. I`m unarmed. He`s an autistic guy. He features a toy truck throughout his hand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That, again, can be Charles Kinsey, who is shot from the police, he has been lying on the ground, his hands had been in the air.

Back together with Evy, Randy, as well as Tariq. Your police chief did maintain a new press conference, which is what happened in the end. take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which was your officer? Has Been he white? was he black? Ended Up Being he Hispanic? How lengthy has been around the department?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: May anyone -- can you tell us his name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why aren`t an individual releasing his name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many shots were fired?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which was the officer?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chief, can you talk about the reaction towards the video?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When is the next press conference?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Randy, he seemed for you to refuse to reply to questions. He`s not necessarily launched something formally in regards for you to the officer, why almost all that confusion?

SUTTON: Well, a person know, I`ve mentioned this moment around along with moment again. We could probably end the lot of the conditions that happen following police shootings if

police agencies would just come out facing items and start -- and begin getting a lot much more transparent.

Because the truth will always win out within the end. and if we escape before things, we are generally able to just end the great offer of your confusion. And I Also think that

the police agencies are usually consequently fearful of liability issues, they`re thus afraid in order to released and also obtaining which if they are usually saying something, it`s likely to turn out

differently after they total your investigation, which they are generally so afraid which that`s planning to happen, which they don`t obtain facing it, plus it

becomes a bigger issue of computer should.

PINSKY: Tariq, your undeniable fact that it was an African-American chief, it was the Hispanic shooter, it had been supposedly an accident, really does that temper your

feelings concerning this with all?

NASHEED: No. because range one, Hispanic once more can be not a race. Your individual is nevertheless classified as white, as well as the person who will be classified as white

still possess the ability being any white supremacist. And Also furthermore just simply because they will roll out the particular token black police chief, that`s even now systematic white

supremacist that we now have to offer inside the greater context.

And it`s not just a coincidence that will black people who're unarmed just happened to be the main ones getting focused nearly every various other day only with that point.

Most black people, and also not most, all black people within America are usually subject in order to being a new hash tag in any offered moment living below this system,

and there`s absolutely no protection for black individuals through this legal lynching that`s happening correct now.

PINSKY: Evy, can you agree with this?

POUMPOURAS: An Individual know, Tariq, you label this police chief a token black police chief.

NASHEED: Yes.

POUMPOURAS: So, have a person been declaring this man without knowing something about him, he didn`t earn the positioning he has, he simply got it

because he`s black? Anyone realize absolutely nothing about him, not how hard he labored or perhaps how hard he busted his butt to get which job.

You don`t understand something regarding him, nevertheless you`re sitting here in national TV discrediting your own brother, so to always be able to speak, and in addition this police chief, which in turn you

don`t know something about.

You know, you`re using this topic as well as proclaiming that Hispanic will be not really a race, they`re tend to be race associated with their particular own. So, you`re stating these things about...

(CROSSTALK)

NASHEED: No, they`re not.

PINSKY: Well, no, he`s actually -- he`s really technically right concerning Hispanic. I mean, anthropologists argue with regards to regardless involving whether race exists at all,

but he technically, technically is right, although I consider a new white supremacist would probably disagree using him about that.

(CROSSTALK)

POUMPOURAS: These People would not want him. I must say would not absolutely want them.

NASHEED: Oh, that they would not really. The Particular white supremacist had not the problem supporting George Zimmerman, so he could be among their own brothers. So, finished .

is he have...

(CROSSTALK)

POUMPOURAS: So, because you can`t examine that will box. So, if you can`t check that will box, then you`re -- everybody`s white, then there`s black. This can be

the thing, we`re certainly not going to fix this simply by becoming angry.

NASHEED: Not Necessarily really.

POUMPOURAS: Precisely what this officer did, when they show what he does has been wrong, absolutely, justice, he should be punished, he ought to end up being able to be charged. That`s

how we fix this.

PINSKY: Let`s remain back with the story. I want to demonstrate an individual a number of footage regarding what happened proper following he was shot. Consider a new take a peek at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KINSEY: I believe these people got like, one, two, three groups of hand cuffs, these people cuffed my -- cuffed my hands, after which that they flipped me over, and also I`m lying

on the particular concrete like this correct here, I`m bleeding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: See, Randy, as a physician, over -- it consider for anything else we`re discussing off the actual table, that therapy actually bothers me. Which was

not appropriate health-related or perhaps humane treatment of somebody throughout custody, right? I mean, that actually was a problem.

SUTTON: This bothers me as well. The idea bothers me as well, Dr. Drew, simply because when an individual -- and based on everything, this individual -- Mr.

Kinsey didn`t do just regarding anything wrong, OK, so he is, within fact, the actual victim involving an accidental shooting if the -- if we are surmising appropriately via what`s

being reported.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: But, Randy, Randy.

SUTTON: Yes?

PINSKY: Even it were an intentional shooting, even when he would always be a criminal concerned in the crime for sure, this treatment just isn't OK.

(CROSSTALK)

NASHEED: And Also you don`t shoot individuals 3 x by simply accident.

SUTTON: I agree using you. I`m not...

NASHEED: A Person don`t shoot people three -- a person don`t shoot from individuals 3 times by accident.

SUTTON: OK. Whatever, Tariq. Whatever you want to say. You`ve been so...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Randy, Randy, become respectful.

NASHEED: A Person don`t shoot a individual 3 times through accident then handcuff all of them right after an individual shoot them. I`ve never seen something similar to that.

SUTTON: Well, if he felt -- if he believed -- if he believed -- if the officer supported his mind your perception that the autistic gentleman

posed the particular threat, and that`s what`s moving in his mind, and he fired three times, he`s shooting at the autistic guy. He`s not shooting Mr. Kinsey. Mr.

Kinsey has been hit through accident. So, we got to adopt that off the particular table.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Just About All right. Permit me give a statement.

SUTTON: but Dr. Drew will be absolutely right.

PINSKY: but from the officers...

(CROSSTALK)

NASHEED: Whatever he supported his thoughts is not reality. I will make up as well as help make believe scenario within my mind and also I`ll always be punish regarding it.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Well, as well as let me offer a statement. Let`s go for the source. This kind of officer actually gave the statement. He said, quote, "I took your shot in order to always be able to save

lives as well as help people. I does what I had to complete in the split 2nd in order to accomplish that, and also I hate to listen to others paint me as some thing I`m not."

And I think, Tariq, if he were hearing you, he'd claim, he could be upset.

NASHEED: Well, I could be upset too. An unarmed black man ended up being shot, and, unfortunately, this suspected race soldier will not become punished. Along With that

is the problem. There`s often some sort of excuse if an unarmed black body's shot by a suspected race soldier.

If anyone can't be criminalized anyone carrying out the shooting can make up a amount of scenario how they felt in their mind. So, we are living in the help make think

world when it arrives to punishing individuals who're non-black, yet when black individuals commit crimes or perhaps perceived to commit crimes, we`re punished for the

letter of the law. So, we can`t get this double edge...

(CROSSTALK)

SUTTON: You`re living in the help make think globe if you feel they're race soldiers.

PINSKY: Randy, i want to demonstrate exactly what the lawyer of this client, this the guy said, your guy -- your officer, his lawyer, when the officer had been asked,

why he shot. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He questioned your officer, why did you shoot me? the officer said, I don`t know. My client furthermore overheard another officer request the particular

shooting officer, why did you shoot this guy, and the officer whom fired the actual shot stated, I don`t know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: We`re going to have got to depart it here, guys. Obviously, a lot of problems with the police perform as well because the police coaching as well as the

police, as Evy said, use of their firearms. There`s a excellent deal more for the story.

But, next, we`re understanding in regards for you to the Baton Rouge police killer. He thought, apparently, there had been clearly thought he had PTSD. I consider issue along with that.

And later, police say a lady would go to bizarre extremes inside criminal lengths to hurt the actual pregnant wife of the girl ex-boyfriend. Yes. Anyone got which right.

I`ll inform you concerning in which after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The idea started with a 911 call in regards for you to a man using a rifle strolling near a convenient store.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1 topic throughout black.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say the attack upon cops throughout Baton Rouge Sunday morning ended up being an ambush.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Individual saw upon TV, it absolutely was chaotic. There`s without doubt in any way that will these officers had been intentionally targeted along with

assassinated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Particular killer, 29-year-old Gavin Eugene Long, the forner marine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gavin long who ended up being simply killed posted this to be able to YouTube about July the 1oth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAVIN LONG, KILLED POLICE OFFICERS: I`m your alpha male, I stand up, I stand firm, along with I stand regarding mine until the particular end, until the final day within this

flesh, nevertheless I`m not the actual flesh, I`m certainly not the particular body.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: We understand that the Baton Rouge police assassin, Gavin Long, had been in the marine corp. He fancied himself later a life-style coach, so-called. He

used social media in order to spread messages with regards to fighting back against bullies.

A source tells CNN that he had claimed to possess had PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. and tonight, new claims concerning him partying, wild sex, he,

Gavin Long, creating these claims himself.

Joining me, Thema Davis, psychotherapist, Aaron Cohen, former Particular Forces operator specializing inside counter terrorism, founder in the Cherry

Counterterrorist School; and also Horace Cooper, attorney as well as co-chair of the black leadership group, Project 21.

Now Gavin long whom uses name Cosmo online, reports that he became celibate suddenly a pair of years ago right after initial getting slept along with more than 75 women. Within an

April podcast, he soon started bragging once more concerning getting sex, partying together with celebrities, and achieving sex along together with his girlfriend, gets into descriptions regarding

being 15 different positions and wrapped just just like a pretzel.

Thema, there`s a, a person know, there`s any mental health professional taking a peek at some of these behaviors and a new few of these thought processes, I mean,

there`s a number of items that arrive at mind, for sure.

THEMA DAVIS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. and I need to very first say, irrespective of the diagnosis, he definitely need a treatment and also required services, and also

oftentimes when our veterans aren't receiving the correct services there exists a lot of hard that takes place for them and other people.

When we examine the behavior prior for you to the shooting, exactly what it reminds me of a histrionic character disorder, exactly where there is flair for the dramatic really

theatrical, any great offer of exaggeration, and higher sexual behavior. Along With him stating that he`s your life coach, proclaiming that he`s a new prosperity expert, all associated with individuals

things are very very suspicious.

PINSKY: Well, they're grandiose, therefore a person wonder, also, I mean, histrionic should go below the type of narcissistic heading, so there is kind of

a narcissistic disorder, a person surprise if there was bipolarity creating some of this agitation and grandiosity.

A rapper named Yarima Karama says he got an e-mail from Gavin just in 1 hour just before he went around the shooting spree. He described the particular e-mail as becoming a

handwritten, quote, "manifesto" that arrived in the form of handwritten photo attachments. CNN will -- let me show you this. Just Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YARIMA KARAMA, OHIO RAPPER: I understand I will possibly be vilified by the media along with police. Unfortunately, I see my actions as being a necessary evil which I do not necessarily

wish to be able to partake inside nor do I enjoy partaking in, but must partake so as to generate substantial change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: CNN wasn't in the position to obtain the letter coming from Karama, so we can`t independently confirm the actual claim, yet police tell us they might be searching in to

it. Aaron, wouldso would can you make sense of most this?

AARON COHEN, COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT: Well, I enjoy the behavioral based approach that anyone simply guys are employing to describe him, talking about narcissism.

I believe that if you appear only with that from your way we would profile, let`s say a very dangerous terrorist, pertaining to instance, there`s certain parallels

between his behavior, in between his grandioseness.

And inside looking at that for the type involving things that we`ll see using a terrorist leader when we`re developing a new behavioral profile for that individual,

which is there seems to be any disconnect in between him and also everybody else.

He puts himself above, and, therefore, he doesn`t think there`s anything wrong together with what he`s doing. His attachment for the media, to be able to YouTube, a great deal

of those things end up translating straight into red flags which in turn we would examine significantly closer inside our intelligence inside Israel, as well as intelligence solutions

here so as being able to thwart individuals possible attacks.

So, everything that was currently stated concerning this certain individual, these tend to be red flags.

PINSKY: OK.

COHEN: There`s zero connection among him and the typical person. He sees himself as clearly above.

PINSKY: Just higher than and also different. Horace, how would you sound right of all associated with this?

HORACE COOPER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: That looks just like evil to always be able to me. It looks just like one who has brought a decision and a program to hold out any

very, extremely evil act, and has apparently believed that these kinds involving evil acts tend to be OK to complete within the perception in which the people about him and additionally the folks

that he interacts along with haven`t signaled in order to him, that will his behavior puts him on a course in direction of destruction. I think regarding it as evil.

PINSKY: Yes. Horace, I`m glad anyone employed that will language because, in order to me, I don`t care what phrases we use, we`re most actually describing exactly your same thing.

And we are describing with all the same construct, we`re taking a glance at the identical thing.

I wish to go to CNN correspondent Ana Cabrera whom spoke in order to somebody that satisfied along with Gavin Extended in regards to a 12 months ago. I guess his name can be Mark Berg. He`s the

head of the community organization located several blocks from Long`s final recognized address. I`ll show you this little tape. Listen for you to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From 1 point in the conversation, I didn`t really feel with some time he was ready and dedicated to become in a new position to accomplish what we should needed. We're

definitely the non-violence school.

We don`t accept something or tolerate something from a poor standpoint. And I Also didn`t think at that period he was actually ready to -- to accept that that you had offer.

PINSKY: Along With Ana joins -- Ana joins me now. Do - did he carry on to always be able to explain a lot more why concerning there is bad a bad fit? Ended Up Being he - ended up being he sensing someone

with violent tendency?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We didn`t state that Extended advocated violence and I requested him, has been that the problem? Along With he said, no, no, no. Generally there has been

just vibe concerning long that will created Bird (ph) hesitate.

He says in which long seemed really intense, extremely militaristic, inside fact, along with stating he were built together with a stance regarding him, that he mentioned his military

background, genuinely wish to emphasize that.

Bird (ph) also says that will Lengthy just seemed being looking for connection, that he didn`t manage to possess a rooted feeling of purpose, he perhaps

wasn`t even connected with himself (inaudible). Now, Bird (ph) furthermore said it absolutely was really essential regarding him to find a particular fit while he runs any

vocational institution that functions well with younger African-American adults who've little education, which gone down maybe a wrong road.

The aim on their behalf would end up being to give these people hope, to produce sure that they will get the knowledge along with skills shutuptariq that they have to possess a brighter future, consequently he

really requirements somebody who is dependable and also that has nothing but an optimistic influence, then one with regards to -- regarding Extended gave Bird (ph) pause.

PINSKY: As Well As Ana, additionally you spoke in order to Long`s stepfather. Does -- did he get virtually any type of similar vibe he ended up being describing?

CABRERA: An Individual know, he described this attack as getting a total shock. He mentioned by no means found just about any type of outbursts along with Long. He had known him since he was ready

seven many years old, helped raise him, said, as they wasn`t his biological son, he certainly felt similar to his son.

He said that Extended was obviously a extremely great kid, was not around any kind of type of guns, wasn`t inside a violent group or anything, in no way noticed him lash out. He said that

Long had been quiet and the man smart expanding up, that he does what he had been told, so that will as Carl Woodley advised me, in absolutely no way had a drop associated with problems, that`s how he place it

with Long.

He says he maintained a very near relationship together with Lengthy while he grew into an adult. Inside fact, it absolutely was Woodley that took him for you to enroll within the marines

back throughout 2005, as well as we realize long served within the marines with regard to five years. He served with regards to six a handful of months tour duty in Iraq. He was obviously a data network specialist

with the marines. but when he returned, when he got out with the marines, he was honorably discharged throughout 2010.

Woodley says there is any notable distinction within Long. He seemed a little bit more withdrawn, he didn`t need to head out much, along with Woodley described

him as more of a loner at that time. However he didn`t mention anything regarding mental wellness concern.

I will say though, however, a supply shut for the investigation can be telling us that other loved ones as well as pals have got advised investigators they will worried which

Long may have had PTSD, and also it was his mother who has informed Tavis Smiley, a host along with PBS, she had requested Lengthy to get assist with the VA.

Now, supply near for the investigation says Lengthy had been on a few medication, however he had not too long ago filled a new prescription with regard to Ativan, an anti-anxiety drug.

He also had prescription for Valium along with sleep aid Lunesta.

The VA can't confirm as well as deny any diagnosis or any therapy for each se, however would display statement these days confirming that they would have a number of contacts

with Lengthy in between 2008 and also 2013. So, all involving this is just really part of the particular bigger puzzle as investigators as well as family members attempt to make sense of what

happened.

PINSKY: Thank you, Ana. It`s fascinating the loved ones who're giving the actual PTSD moniker which, again, wrong, but we`ll enter into that will after the break.

I`ve got a guy that knew Gavin Extended says, he could have stopped him from killing had he known.

And later, perhaps one with the most shocking revenge story ever. Police say a lady scorned cooked up a new devious plot to be able to harm any rival. back following this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Gavin Lengthy traveled 800 miles to stop and execute three cops throughout Baton Rouge last weekend. He had been eventually killed through police.

Back along with Thema, Aaron, and also Horace. As Well As we've new video taken through Gavin Extended about his physique cam that will exhibits him around the streets associated with North Baton Rouge

speaking along with strangers, marketing himself and his book. Watch this in the advocate.com.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

GAVIN LONG: I`m out, just like i said, I`m advertising my book. let me give you my guide also, bruh. Elevating our people, anyone know, educating our people.

Ain`t nobody provide us with your knowledge that we need.

You know what I mean, to become successful along with succeed, consequently that`s what I`m out here doing. Yeah, I wrote it, man, that`s me, when I was at Africa. Yeah,

bruh. Yep. Yeah. I`m telling you, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Becoming a Member Of me through Skype, I`ve got Lance Scurv, the blogger, radio host, friend of Gavin Long. Lance, anyone say you may have been in any position to stop him?

LANCE SCURV, FRIEND OF GAVIN LONG: Yes. Yes. We stood a fantastic link when he came into my show, The Particular Lance Scurv Show. Prior To that, he reached

out to me in October of 2015. We had numerous phone calls in which we connected, and in the end on the whim, we just about do your show.

I had my equipment here consequently I can get it done similar to that. He seemed to become the person who had been usually about the move, not for almost any weird purpose or any kind of -- he just

didn`t -- he wasn`t settled. Most I need to have to say is which he didn`t seem such as the sort of individual who could do this.

I couldn`t imagine, throughout my many years of life, following my kind associated with connection along with him, he could do this. Since he would this, I say in order to myself, what

happened for you to him from your period which I spoke with him, while he ended up being very open up until some time which he would this act.

PINSKY: He -- a person say he described himself like a freedom fighter. Precisely what would he mean?

SCURV: Okay. Any time he described himself as a freedom fighter, the way in which I took it, would become a one who wanted to deal using the racism here within the country,

the ignorance inside the country, the actual imagery of his people.

You see, so he felt which he had knowledge in which might help everybody here on the spiritual level, on a physical fitness level. because should you examine us

in America, most of us, we`re not really doing in which excellent proper now. The Particular country`s divided.

And all I want to say in order to Horace, brother Horace, who declared it had been an evil act. Yes, I do not condone which at all, nevertheless we have to imagine which

when our troops return through war, prior to they go, they might be stripped down as well as developed to be killing machines.

We say it`s evil when he shot individuals 3 cops, and, yes, it could probably be looked that way, but wait, how -- it might be evil, also, when you look about the

other side since these people produced killing machines.

PINSKY: Okay. Let`s put Horace`s react in order to that. Go ahead Horace.

COOPER: Yeah. I strenuously disagree. The Particular Bureau regarding Prisons, the actual Department involving Justice, the particular FBI, your data tell us that our veterans, the people

who serve, are far much less more most likely to engage in violent crime, plus particular, there`s any staggering lower range whenever you speak about black

males between ages associated with 16 along with 35 who are civilians versus people who go in the military.

The figures are generally staggering. This can be efficacious to get a youthful black man for you to serve in our military and so they emerge and therefore they tend to be amazing contributions

to society.

PINSKY: Aaron, a person agree? Well, allow -- allow me to obtain Aaron`s comment then Thema. Go ahead, Aaron.

COHEN: Yeah, I do. I agree. I know that the Marine Corps is surely an superb branch in the military. I`ve trained the marines before. There`s a higher set

of -- there`s higher discipline. There`s substantial morale. Your standards are generally increasingly high.

And I just don`t feel that there`s any link among and I completely agree with Horace. There`s no connection. We haven`t discovered this within Israel,

either, between getting served in the foreign operating area, along with I`m not even sure what his particular MOS has been when he had been abroad.

It doesn`t audio just like he has been in the combat arms MOS, meaning he had been in leading line, he was fighting, he had been heading residence in order to house.

PINSKY: Apparently not. Despite the fact that he explained he was, but apparently not. However Thema, you are usually in any position to realise why Lance would say that, alright, intuitively it

kind regarding create sense, but I guess the information will not suggest it, or perhaps would you disagree using the gentleman? Thema?

DAVIS: I would say that those who serve are at elevated risk with regard to perpetuating domestic violence. As Well As interestingly, we`ve been seeing an

association along with individuals who're our perpetrators associated with domestic violence and those who perpetrate neighborhood violence.

I do need to say which he served and he was not dishonorably discharged, and so it`s crucial that we not erase might recognize your requirement for

services. We notice through him hypervigilance, along with that`s a new section of PTSD, the loved ones and others statement a number of avoidance behavior, nevertheless of course at this

time when he was carrying out your shooting, he wasn`t becoming avoidant, he was becoming aggressive.

PINSKY: Yeah.

DAVIS: He actually require a therapy.

PINSKY: Right. I couldn`t agree with you more. Anyone know, refer for you to it as evil, think associated with it as grandiose, refer to end up being able to it as whatever title you want to utilize to describe what this

was here, we are usually in any position to tell you, Thema, I may inform you that we can research this and we change the course of it. Whatever language accustomed to describe it, when

somebody`s into trouble, remedy is actually a difference.

Next up, police say six men present up for forced sex having a pregnant woman because this jealous ex set it up upon Craigslist. I`ll tell you regarding it

after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reviews a pregnant Orange County woman brutally attacked within her home right after your ex husband, 29-year-old ex, features exposed

fake rape fantasy rape ads under the actual pregnant wife`s name on Craigslist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michelle Hadley allegedly sent him within images and details in regards to always be able to the woman`s day-to-day routines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Lady even impersonated your pregnant wife when communicating using the possible perpetrators, no lower than 6 men

showed up and also attemptedto attack this woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Incredible. 29-year-old Michelle Hadley ended up charged with ten felonies, such as six counts of attempted forcible rape. Again together with Thema

and Evy, and joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar, our criminal defense attorney.

Evy, six guys confirmed as much as rape an unsuspecting pregnant woman. I`ve never been aware of such a thing.

POUMPOURAS: Yes. This particular is a woman who, obviously, took the woman's breakup very, very, extremely poorly. The Girl ought to absolutely be charged. She`s seeking at a

possible life sentence. The Girl ought to absolutely get that if that`s what they believe is suitable simply because not just this truly is an ongoing issue which they

had along with her.

They filed restraining orders against her. The Lady sent them e-mails harassing them, threatening the actual wife, threatening your baby. Your Woman ended up being out in bail for -

- the girl had been out upon bail, then they will introduced her, the lady dates back out and really does this. So, this is somebody whom is a danger for you to society, which has a problem.

PINSKY: Anahita, Counselor, you`re defending this woman. I know you'll become in a new position to (inaudible) several protection regarding her.

POUMPOURAS: I -- I know Anahita can defend her.

PINSKY: Anahita may defend anybody, yet -- nevertheless even you've problems with this particular one. and -- as well as my issue is, this woman ended up being dangerous, and they let

her back out again, is the fact that how a system supposed for you to work?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s certainly not supposed to become able to function which way. I believe your woman deserves any defense, yet it`s -- it`s gonna be a

difficult one. This really is actually, like, a new distinct degree of crazy because the lady literally -- she couldn`t manage herself, Dr. Drew.

Like Evy just said, the lady was arrested with regard to threatening this woman regarding submitting these ads. She`s fortunate enough to have out upon bail, as well as precisely what does your woman do when

she gets out? Your Woman continues to accomplish this. So, anyone know, I don`t believe there`s gonna be much sympathy on the woman's behalf if this comes for you to sentencing.

PINSKY: However -- yet Anahita, what I want to obtain out here is often that -- that will extremely often stalkers, when you say, can`t manage themselves. That`s what

stalking is...

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s right.

PINSKY: ... and also there`s very few remedies for the victims until one thing horrible happens.

SEDAGHATFAR: and that`s unfortunate. That`s right. I mean, the actual greatest you could do is do what this woman did. The Girl got any restraining order, yet -- yet this

defendant, the girl cannot control herself. The Actual day the lady got out and the lady or perhaps he got released in bail, the lady went right back on Craigslist, and he or perhaps she had been

communicating as well as adding these ads. So...

PINSKY: Well.

SEDAGHATFAR: ... I personally believe she`s gonna -- she`s gonna get a lot of jail time, Dr. Drew.

PRINSKY: Well, that`s good.

SEDAGHATFAR: she has criminal records as well together with every thing else.

PINSKY: That`s good. However -- Yet Thema, not to -- never to in in any kind of manner just take issue together with my friend, Anahita.

SEDAGHATFAR: Obviously not.

PINSKY: Yet -- yet she says it`s the proper factor to get the restraining order. The Actual reality, unfortunately, is, if you are generally doing anything with a straightforward

stalker, maintain any type of relationship even though it`s clamping down structure, though sometimes you have to, they often inflame them.

DAVIS: It`s consequently true. That`s why it`s vital that will you make an effort to figure out the actual personality regarding anyone you`re dealing with. Since there tend to be some

people whom you got a restraining order and they`re like, Oh, I don`t want any kind of trouble, therefore they back again up.

But using her, there really is not any remorse with no stopping her, and she`s extremely obsessed and extremely angry. and so, I nonetheless feel it had been probably your

right selection for these phones do.

PINSKY: Yeah. I consider they'd simply no choice, right?

DAVIS: Yeah.

PINSKY: I mean, yet -- yet Evy, you`re my safety expert. Let`s say I`ve got somebody coming at me along with won't stop and I finally take some action.

It helps make issues worse. Exactly what do I do? As Well As Anahita is there defending this woman.

(LAUGHTER)

POUMPOURAS: That`s Anahita`s job and also I respect that. you know, using this woman -- I mean, she`s truly just unstable plus a threat in order to society, as well as

I`d truly always be interested for you to realize how she behaved in her previous relationships. (inaudible) I mean, I don`t feel individuals just snap and do

this although...

PINSKY: No.

POUMPOURAS: ... I -- I feel the lady ended up being dumped -- dumped then immediately the girl boyfriend fulfilled somebody different and also got which woman -- woman pregnant.

You`re probably seeking at a lot of historical issues, problems, violence inside the past...

PINSKY: Well, yeah. Well, not necessarily violence.

POUMPOURAS: ... somebody such as this should absolutely do moment (ph).

PINSKY: Not Necessarily automatically violence. Thema, I`ll go again to you. It`s Jodi Arias. It`s borderline personality, right?

DAVIS: and items could escalate more than time.

POUMPOURAS: This specific is also domestic violence.

PINSKY: Yeah.

POUMPOURAS: I`m sorry, but you -- you didn`t feel she were built along with a domestic violence most since she's violent boyfriend...

PINSKY: Would not necessarily always be surprising -- wouldn't be surprising. Yet -- yet Thema, that`s type of exactly what it sounds like to me. A Person agree?

DAVIS: Absolutely. Issues escalating over time and the a lot more she`s having the note, the harder she`s responding using increased rage for the point where

she could even attack any pregnant woman.

PINSKY: Correct -- right. let me take a quick break. I`ll be back with additional about this. There`s a lot more -- a lot more wild aspect for the story (inaudible). I`ll end up being

right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Authorities say a new Southern California woman posted rape fantasy ads upon Craigslist posing as your ex ex-boyfriend`s pregnant new wife. Let`s attempt to

follow all that.

Now, she was encouraging men to forcibly rape her, claiming to be her, even when your woman screamed or resisted. back for you to Thema, Evy, and also Anahita. Anahita, my

question, is actually to start out here, amongst a number associated with other things, is the Craigslist liability.

I -- I recognize that these people don`t anticipate individuals behave similar to this, yet don`t these people possess some liability?

SEDAGHATFAR: Simply No liability with regard to Craigslist. Presently shutuptariq there shouldn`t end up being liability, Dr. Drew. Inside fact, regulations protects websites just like this. Your Communications

Decency Act says which web sites such as this usually are usually not liable by simply third get-togethers whom post on the website or who engage throughout illegal acts utilizing his or her

website.

And if you think about it, that will is truly a great deal of sense. Since if Craigslist, for example, if these were needed to police and monitor the

millions along with countless posts that will go on their website, that could be just like a huge cost, as well as it might most likely end up being impossible for the actual kids to complete that.

And thus sites such as Craigslist, An Individual Tube, Facebook, these would most shut down and also it would stifle web speech, and we don`t want in which for you to happen,



so that`s why regulations protects the site from liability.

PINSKY: We don`t want that will in order to happen, nevertheless maybe the web could be safer location if people were made to develop the technology. Thema, I observe an individual

nodding -- nodding.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Quit using the slippery slope. that helps make me crazy when you are doing the particular slippery slope.

SEDAGHATFAR: It`s true. It`s absolutely when the large web sites will shut down eventually.

PINSKY: Thema, what do you think?

DAVIS: We`re considering the actual legal rights and the business with regard to those whom have these websites, however we've to in addition feel about the victims, and among the

victims groups that we've actually attempted to address in the wedding it arrives for the net can be sex trafficking victims, who often are usually trafficked using these

types regarding websites, and so I believe there can need to become the amount of accountability.

PINSKY: Yeah. Maybe the particular slippery slope just isn't entering your slippery slope simply by attempting to deal using this rationally or perhaps reasonably rather than worrying with regards to

a slipper slope by just dealing with just about all the things that could be dealt with.

SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly Where could you draw your line, Dr. Drew? Would the particular newspaper always be liable if a person else reads an advert for any residence that`s outlined pertaining to sale along with and

a crazy person should go and attacks the actual real estate agent?

PINSKY: Listen, Anahita. Almost All I understand is the very fact that just how the actual attorney do with the legal system, literally, if I`m in a room exactly where somebody says something

and not even for you to me, I`m liable just since I ended up being in the space along with them.

SEDAGHATFAR: you may be sued.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Okay. Evy, what would you say to all this?

POUMPOURAS: you know, some of these, really your social media, some platforms, they truly do investigate. That They do have a unit that really does investigate.

So that`s why when you have somebody which harasses an individual online, you can report them.

They do allow you delete as well as block people, and therefore they do remove people, just like through Twitter, for example, depending once more about what individuals post. They Will do

remover people`s Twitter handles as well as Facebook really does the same thing...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: ... Facebook had been trying very hard, simply into my space. They Will -- they are generally saying folks specialize this, that features been early times of attempting to trouble

with it.

POUMPOURAS: There`s a complete investigative unit. They Will do make an effort to perform together with law enforcement. Yet returning to (inaudible) the problem is actually there`s thus many

users. How have you been in any position to keep on leading of this? I do want to suggest another thing else because I`m gonna go again in order to my kind of safety aspect regarding

using these online, you know, these platforms, your social media platforms.

With this victim, supposedly the perpetrator, any suspect, the lady took photographs in the victim, posted these online. The Girl allegedly shared the girl every day routine.

So, leading me to believe, again, it`s not confirmed, yet that leads me to believe she features use of this woman`s photos probably...

PINSKY: Unbelievable.

POUMPOURAS: ... through the girl social media accounts.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Preaching. Evy is actually preaching.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: Don`t have a Facebook. Don`t use a Twitter.

POUMPOURAS: you realize what?

SEDAGHATFAR: Preserve it private.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Got for you to go, guys. A Couple Of seconds, Evy. A Couple Of seconds, Evy. Go.

POUMPOURAS: Actually in the big event you ensure that will it stays private, guys, it`s not at all times safe.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Nancy Grace, up next.

END

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